What does the future hold for driver recruiting?

Tune in to deep-dive into hot transportation topics from automated trucking to actionable strategies for combating the saturated driver market in the current economy. This roundtable is a part of TrackFive’s ongoing initiative to provide you with industry insights through engaging virtual content. As we navigate through these challenging times together, we believe in the power of knowledge-sharing and collaboration.

Allison:

All right, great. Well, we will get started. We have a lot to get to. Super excited for this. So hey everyone, I know some people are still trickling in, but thank everyone for joining our trucking roundtable webinar. We’re super excited about this. We have a lot of good questions and phenomenal speakers. Super excited to have: Mats, CEO of LaneFinder here; Natasha, corporate branding VP of HireMaster; Sam, president of TruckersReport; Darin, president of CDLjobs.com; Ben Onnie, president of CareerNow brand; Amy, president of JobsInLogistics.com; and then Oliver, president of AllTruckJobs. So, thank you guys for joining so much. Oliver, just in case anybody here is not familiar with who we are here at TrackFive, do you want to take a minute and just kind of fill everybody in?

Oliver:

Yeah, it’ll just take a quick sec. So, first of all, thanks to all the panelists for joining us. I think it’s a really great industry where we can get, you know, seven of, you know, different competing platforms out there. You know, to gather around a roundtable and share some knowledge in a, you know, a friendly and thought provoking way and really help you know, benefit some of you know, shared clients and just kind of you know, gather around the community. And I think it speaks volumes for each and every one of you as well. So, first of all, I just want to thank you guys for coming. I also want to thank everyone who’s tuning in, and everyone who’s going to watch this, you know, webinar in perpetuity on social. AllTruckJobs.com, we’re a programmatic career platform focusing on the truck trucking industry just like some of the other providers here. All of these guys are great providers. If you’re looking for drivers, I invite you to give us a call or any of these guys and girls a call here as well. I’m sure any one of us would love to work with you. But with that, we’ll start the webinar.

Allison:

Yeah, great. Thanks, guys. All right. So first question that, to just start off the discussions, we want to talk about what advice do you have for trucking companies on how to maximize their value of leads? And with that, what tactics do you have for maximizing the leads overall? So Sam, why don’t we start with you? Sorry for picking it out. Yeah.

Sam:

No, I’m glad to go first. So anytime you get a group of job board recruitment advertisers together you know, if there’s five of us in a room, seven or eight of us, we’ll tell you that you need to call your leads more, then that’s really the maximizer. And you know, of course recruiters know that and comes down to, well, we just don’t have the ability to call all of them, or we can’t do it as quick as we want. And I get it, you know, law of time, law of physics maybe even in doing all of that. So, what I offer is a little variation on that. We know that calling as fast as possible is highly important. And what I say is a lot of people try to kind of keep up and they get, you know, maybe four hours, seven hours a day behind of leads when they come in. And from our perspective, we tell recruiters just call the soonest one. If that means that somebody doesn’t, you know… somebody’s been called, came in four hours later, doesn’t get called, you kind of have to say, sorry, we’ll get to you tomorrow when things get caught up so that you can call the person who just applied right now. Always call the most recent lead rather than your oldest lead.

Allison:

Yeah, that’s great. That’s a smart, does anybody have an opinion on that? Maybe a different approach or challenges on Sam’s idea?

Amy:

I think that’s great. Yeah, I just want to jump in on that. Yeah, I mean as far as the calls, we see it every day with those call reports just as far as they’re not being picked up or the conversation as far as you know, the whole process with it. It’s so important with those calls, but also with the leads coming in and making sure that they’re jumping on them as quick as possible. It’s really important, especially for the smaller carriers competing against the larger ones, which I know we’re going to talk about later, but that’s a key part. But also the transparency with your partner, if you’re looking to maximize the value of the lead, well, first off, what’s the value that they consider of that lead? Is it the short app? Is it the full app? Is it the phone call? What do they consider value so that you guys are on the same page with what that overall process is for them? And also, you know, the job listings, making sure that they’re creating a compelling story throughout the whole process

Allison:

The job listings. Yeah, the job listings, for sure.

Ben:

Yeah. I would throw one more thing out there that’s I think important. Everyone obviously agrees on the speed, you know, but I would say just making sure you understand your process, right? I think it’s important to map out that process, study it, optimize it, test to improve, right? And then another thing is, you know, typically only about 25% to maybe a third of leads actually result in a real conversation, right? So another thing is, I wouldn’t give up on trying to make contact with those folks, even if you can’t make contact right away, or maybe they hire on with somebody entirely—different company, right? There was still enough interest for them to express interest and submit that lead form. So, you know, I would recommend kind of thinking of these individuals as candidates, but also kind of the way you would treat customer, right? Continue to engage them over time, right? To extract the most possible value from that candidate pool.

Allison:

Ben, it’s interesting you say that because somebody posted in the chat, she said, we have found that calling is the least successful. The applicants get inundated with calls as soon as they hit submit. What would your response be to that comment? 

Ben:

Yeah, I mean, well, A, I think it depends on the size of the company. Obviously the larger companies are going to probably have some kind of call center software, or maybe a smaller company is calling on cell phones. I’m sure, you know, all the peers on the phone have experienced that. And we all work with a lot of different types of clients. But I think it’s important to also engage with people in a variety of different contact types. Right? And I know we’re going to touch on that in some of the future questions, but, you know, I would recommend engaging with people via text, via email, via phone, potentially push, right? You can literally remarket folks with audience marketing even those that were in your candidate pool that didn’t hire on, but at one point expressed interest. We call it funnel marketing here at CareerNow. But you’d be surprised how many hires you can extract from that candidate pool over time.

Allison:

Yeah. Oh, sorry. Go ahead, Mats.

Mats:

Yeah. Could I’ll just jump straight into that? Yeah, obviously agree with everything that has been said, for sure. And actually when we started looking at the data and extrapolated to see, you know, the correlation between how quickly you get in touch with the driver, we could see like a 4x improvement basically overnight. And so what we decided to do was we actually drive more traffic to the companies that have a quick time from receiving the application to contacting that application. And so that’s been a little bit of a, instead of coming with sticks and stones, coming with the carrot, you know, be quick, go over more drivers to you.

Allison:

With the carrot. Yeah, that’s interesting. So I’m interested, like obviously there’s the calling, but then the mobile marketing aspect, right? SMS push, et cetera, campaigns are efficient for recruiting direct drivers. How would that be? And then like, social media’s role even as well. And Natasha, do you want to touch on that?

Natasha:

Sure. Social media should be used as like a branding opportunity. More and more restrictions are coming down on what we can market to and how we can market to those folks. So it’s best to send those social media applicants to an external landing page so that you can learn more about the drivers through that method. But definitely social media should be part of the mix because, you know, talking, you know about what we were talking about a second ago, you know, you really need to know your audience and how they can consume their data, and are they coming to you from those outlets and know how they like to be contacted back.

Allison:

Right. Yeah, I think that’s huge. That’s huge. Oliver or Darin, do you have any input on that, the social media, the mobile aspect?

Oliver:

Yeah, I’ll just touch on social just to build off what Natasha said. So she’s right, it’s getting harder and harder to get better targeting on social with the employment categories and things like that, and the way everybody’s moving. And I think we all get, especially us as candidate generators, as marketers, right? We get so focused on bottom of funnel, you know, as far as conversions, you know. There is a whole other side to the funnel, right? Top of funnel, which is more information, more, you know, not just branding, but more kind of answering those questions before they’re ready to buy. And that’s where customers, that’s where applicants, you know, in any business start, right? So what we’ve found is, you know, by utilizing top of funnel in social and really providing a robust content strategy, A, we’re able to also get out of the employment category, but also B, we’re able to kind of groom, you know, tomorrow’s applicants as well as today’s by driving to a landing page as well. So, yeah, I think just my take there in social, to kind of utilize social for, you know, kind of a whole funnel approach. 

Allison:

That’s great. That’s great. All right, we’re going to move along here. Again, if anybody has any questions on that, just feel free to drop them in the chat. Darin, I’d love to hear from you here on this one. You know, we’re in that time where larger trucking companies tend to saturate the hiring market. I think that we’ve seen that fairly recently. What advice do you have for the smaller and even the medium trucking companies that are competing for talent?

Darin:

Well ideally you use trucking specific websites. We’ve got seven of them here, when you do, so I have my favorite, but-

Allison:

Keep it neutral.

Darin:

I mean, you get to use our SEO and our social media footprints, right? So it does level the playing field. Just simply by doing that, it levels the playing field. Once we bring awareness of the smaller companies, then it’s up to them to follow up. But yeah, I mean, it’s that simple. It’s not we’re not reinventing anything here. Just simply using a trucking specific website is going to level the playing field for you. 

Allison:

Yeah. Do you think there’s any hesitation for recruiters to get on a trucking website, though?

Darin:

I don’t know what it would be.

Allison:

Yeah. Does anybody have any ideas here on that?

Ben:

Yeah, I would say, you know, I think that what I’ve noticed with kind of smaller carriers is I think that they’re evolving pretty quick regarding, you know, recruitment process, when I think maybe five years ago, I think some of the challenges that I saw you know, with maybe a smaller carrier using a service like something that any one of us offer is that recruiting process, being able to contact those candidates quickly enough. I think all of us have great nurturing options to help, you know, drive more apps rather than leads. So I think that helps. But in terms of you know, larger companies versus smaller or medium in that market, I think it’s important to focus on your specific brand, right? Focus on user experience, be clear about what you’re offering, right? But I also think it’s important to understand what the competition’s offering, right? Because, you know, at the end of the day, if you’re severely under, you know, under competing when it comes to comp, right? You might have some challenges being successful, right? But you know, I also say be clear about some of the value props, right? I would recommend not making people have to think too hard or do a major math problem to kind of estimate their earning potential. And that same concept that don’t make me think mentality, I think goes with the next steps, right? I think that mentality, making it super easy to know where they stand in that process, right? From the moment they submit that lead until you hire them, driving that forward, right? You can do that actually using some of those push notifications and SMS tools, right? And I don’t know if we kind of skipped over that last topic a bit, but I agree with the comment that I know I don’t answer a lot of calls when they come from random numbers. I think drivers are kind of the same way. So using, you know, all the different capabilities, I think helps with process but also helps with contact rate. And, you know, I think good process can make you a lot more competitive in today’s market.

Natasha:

So, yeah. And just to touch on that, kind of the same thing that we’ve said is, you know, be sure to not to give up on that lead, and for the smaller companies, to know their demographics, to know who their drivers are, how many drivers are in that area, what the average, you know, be able to sell yourself and know a little bit more about the candidate so that they feel like more of an individual to you, rather than just a number to those larger trucking companies.

Oliver:

Yeah, and I would add to that as well, and just say, you know, I think going on pay rate is kind of a race to the bottom in certain regards, especially for some of the smaller companies. I mean, I know it’s an essential part of the user behavior, but you know, really finding key differentiators, whether it be, obviously the big things like home time, but it could be things like the new trucks, it could be things like awards and recognition, you know, really sell the sizzle. And really, if you have, you know, a part of your offering, which is not as attractive, maybe you just can’t compete with some of the bigger carriers with X, Y, Z. Find out what is better, you know, so doing that comp, you know, that comp intel, going out and finding who are your main competitors, what are they doing where you can brand, and I hate to say it, but good old-fashioned marketing, right? Like good old-fashioned branding. You know, a lot of these platforms, ourselves included, have opportunities for you to dress up your profile pages, create branding opportunities, and really tell the story about who you are using video, different things like that. And I’ll be honest, a lot of our clients don’t really take advantage of that to the full potential. Because it’s not, you know, it’s not a conversation or generating a lead, but it really is. So, yeah. So I would really focus on, you know, painting the picture, selling the sizzle, telling the story.

Sam:

And if I could just jump in on that. There’s an economic reality to this where a lot of the smaller companies, you know, hey, they’d love to… job would be so easy if you could pay a buck a mile to your company drivers. But, you know, that doesn’t work out. And just getting noticed is very difficult for these smaller companies when there’s a hundred other companies advertising. And even if you don’t have something that is better than the other trucking companies, just changing the message. A lot of trucking companies have pet policies or ride along policies but that is a bullet point at the bottom of their list. If you have the ability to just make your job title, bring your best friend along, you know, fuzzy friends welcome; that will get you looks that the big guys aren’t getting, when they’re talking about their CPMs. It’s not going to appeal to every single driver out there. But you’re not trying to appeal to every single driver out there. You’re trying to appeal to some people that really want what you’re offering.

Mats:

And to add to that, also, I would say that, you know, when you are a smaller company, like what Sam was saying, you know, be beautiful to put in a dollar a mile and compete on that and so forth. But then also, you know, I think that there’s a fundamental, you know, the game is rigged against the smaller companies because, you know, most of the models are based on exposure, right? So you know, how high up are you in the listings? How many, you know, CPM, CPC, it’s all about the ad budget, right? So when you’re competing with the bigger carriers, they’re probably going to win at least when it comes to the exposure. Then obviously, if you’re able to get those eyeballs, you know, bring up the pep policy, bring up everything that makes you unique, tell that story. So what I would say to smaller, mid-sized carriers, you know, they can’t compete with a mega carrier is, you know, see where you can find a model that’s, you know, paid for results rather than exposure. Because a truck driver working for a 10 truck operation is going to generate as much revenue for that company as they are for a thousand truck operation. And so that would be my tip.

Allison:

And then Natasha-

Amy:

I also wanted to-

Allison:

Oh, go ahead, Amy. 

Amy:

Sorry. 

Allison:

Nope, go ahead. We’re good for now.

Amy:

I wanted to touch on something Oliver said as far as that goes, just real quick on the sizzle end of it. With the company itself, there are some ambassadors within that organization. You know, I was just at the Women in Trucking show on a panel about this. And, you know, the interesting part about it is when you look within the company itself, get those people that sell your story. It doesn’t have to be all about the money and the campaign and the ads. It has to be about something that’s going to make your story pop. Use that sizzle, use that company information, use the people within the organization to get those videos out there to sell your brand because they’re the ones that are going to sell and, you know, bring that passion and show those new drivers, or show those new employees what you’re all about.

Allison:

Yeah. That’s really good. That’s really good. To circle back a bit to something that Natasha said, she said, don’t give up on those leads. And I think the question would be then, what recommendations do you guys have for the companies on nurturing and engaging those leads, or all leads in general, but especially the ones they don’t want to give up on.

Natasha:

Well, I mean, we see it all the time that people will add those leads to a DQ list very quickly, after just two or three attempted contacts. And, you know, like we’ve touched on before, there are many different ways to re-engage those leads. So you can do, you know, text campaigns, call campaigns, email campaigns. You can again, also find out how they like to consume their data. How do they come to you? How do they like to chat? Through, you know, Instagram or TikTok or, you know, any of those things? The days of, you know, kind of just getting a driver on the phone and sending them a link, those are over, and we have to be able to kind of flip the switch and see how we’re going to reengage and talk to these drivers in new mindsets.

Ben:

Yeah. My thought process on the nurturing is, you know, it can be used in a lot of different ways to achieve a lot of different goals. I think it’s important that each customer understands your user journey. And make sure you have your goals very clear, right? What is the goal that you’re trying to achieve from a specific touch point? Or whether that be a nurture touch point, could be a phone call, a text, whatever it is. I would also, you know, in addition to making sure you know what the goal is, make it really clear to that user. Again, I keep saying this, don’t make me think mentality in that hiring process. If a candidate’s unsure what that next step is, you know, you should really work to address that. And again, when it comes to kind of initially when a person first submits that lead, I think the real focus should be driving those important next steps that, you know, you’re going to need to get done. Maybe that’s completing an app or making contact, driving that contact, let’s say. And I think there was a question in the chat about, okay, well, I’ve tried to contact these individuals for maybe a week or two and no luck, right? And I did like that comment about, you know, potential recruiter just adding to a DNC where, okay, well, we had three attempts, but they didn’t answer; doesn’t necessarily mean they want to be off your list, right? So I think you know, could start out with nurturing, focus on very specific steps. If you don’t achieve results, then continue engaging with them. And I’d say, you know, sprinkling some reminders about why they expressed interest in the first place, right? A little bit more marketing focused. We usually start off a bit transactional because again, they already submitted interest, here’s your next step. But down the road for folks we couldn’t get in touch with, you know, shift to, Hey, just as a reminder, we have these different opportunities. Maybe you have multiple options available where that person lives, and they only know about one of them. Right? Educate them on the value of your company ongoing.

Amy:

That’s perfect.

Allison:

Darin, what are your thoughts?

Darin:

Well, I think too many times, people—and Natasha touched on this, is they give up too easy. Or, and we’ve all, everybody on here has been told cancellation because of “bad leads”. Every lead is a good lead. Leads are looking for a job. They went through the time and the process to fill out an application. They might not be looking for your job at this moment, but they are looking for a new job. So there is no bad lead. These are people that are looking for work. They might not be interested in you at this moment, but they did submit their information to you, so you need to hang onto it, create some sort of trickle effect, whether—and everybody’s got their own way of doing this, there’s some very good ones that you can get through the ATSs that are out there that work very well. And we’re going to get a little bit to that later, but you need to keep them intact, and keep them in front… Keep in front of them at some way.

Allison:

Yeah. 

Ben:

We found that getting more full apps is really impactful to the hire rate. And, you know, if you think about it, right? Someone can submit a lead. You know, there’s intent there, right? But I think if somebody’s willing to fill out the entire employment application, which, you know, depending on the system can take some time, I think that’s really strong intent. So we’ve seen, you know, you can also think about prioritizing, you know, using nurturing to get a next step done when the next step gets taken, right? Like a lead to a full app conversion. Make sure you really prioritize those and focus on those, because they’re much closer to the finish line. So that’s just a piece of advice I recommend.

Allison:

That’s great. Thanks again. Oliver had thrown in a poll asking if they’re seeing the market improving, and about 72% said that they are, and 28 said, no. That’s good. That’s a good number so far. If anybody hasn’t voted yet, go ahead and do that. We’d love to know. You know, we’ve seen the pendulum swing from one center of the economic activity, you know, the COVID, consumer heavy, bye, bye, bye, to another really quickly, and with it looking like it’s starting to swing back. I know that we’ve seen that here. Oliver could attest to that. What advice do you have for the truck driving recruiter industry, like right now in this November? 

Natasha:

I would agree. We are seeing that search history is up, or people searching for jobs is up 22% year over year.

Allison:

Wow. That’s a great number. 

Natasha:

And so there are definitely people who are looking for jobs now, and now’s the time to basically keep your foot on the pedal and take advantage of getting the drivers now, take advantage of the lower cost per hire, take advantage of, you know, the opportunity to upgrade your drivers. And just know, you know, like the poll says, it’s kind of overwhelming. And that’s a kind of a, phew, for all of us.

Allison:

Right.

Natasha:

You know, things are improving. And, you know, just being able to look at the data and see year over year results and know that search traffic is increasing. And just definitely, you know, we always say optimize to the lead, you know, optimize your drivers. You know, make sure that you have the best drivers in your fleet and just take advantage of that now, because the people who are keeping their foot on the pedal right now will be the people who gain the market share and win in the end.

Darin:

Yeah. I think that back to the point of… It’s not necessarily that it’s been a drop off in leads. We never really saw that go away. What we saw go away is the need to actually hire drivers. That’s what I thought the issue was, kind of that we were getting at here. And I think that there’s a difference. And I recently read an article—and I think it might have been Oliver that wrote it, and it was a difference between sourcing and recruiting. And I mean, it’s a vital distinction that if you don’t understand, you need to read the article. Even though you might not need to recruit drivers right now, you need to source drivers for sure. Get them into your pipeline and start that process. Because it is coming back, as I pray quickly. It’s coming back. It’s just a matter of when, and sourcing the drivers now is going to make your job as a recruiter much easier in the first quarter of 2024.

Ben:

Yeah. I think to add on that, like we all know the market can cycle. Trucking market is a cyclical market. We’ve seen this over the years. My recommendation is just you know, keep an eye… keep your finger on the pulse. Stay in touch with your teams internally. So your sales team, your account management teams on the account side, and you know, put yourself in a position to be proactive rather than reactive. Right? We all know it can take time to hire drivers, right? If, you know, your sales team says, hey, we need 20 more drivers and we need them next month. Well, the reality is, you know, many carriers don’t really achieve, you know, call it 90% of their hires until 60 to 90 days, potentially after they run a campaign, right? So I think just trying to be proactive instead of reactive puts you in a competitive advantage position. And ultimately, you know, it can shorten the time to fill as well. 

Allison:

Somebody said drivers are on the move, a hundred percent, some of the best recruiting waters I have seen in quite some time.

Oliver:

That’s great. 

Sam:

I’m going to cut my own throat here and a fortune of the throats of all my other panelists here-

Oliver:

Go for it, Sam.

Sam:

And say that, I think the most important thing right now… It’s a heavily fragmented market, right? Some of us, some of the carriers are already seeing things improving. Others are still in the depths of the recession and are having conversations from the c-suite saying, you got to cut your costs, you got to give me money back from your budget, you got to reduce your headcounts over there on the recruiting team. And my message would be, and we saw this, you know, in the past two years, the hardest thing to get is good recruiters, right? Like, you can move your budget around on leads pretty easily. There’s seven of us here, and we’re a fragment of the overall market. But hiring and training a good recruiter, they’re worth their weight in gold. So whatever you can do to protect your good recruiters so that when things turn around, you don’t have to go back to the market to both hire drivers and recruiters. Protect your recruiters.

Allison:

Protect your recruiters. Yeah.

Oliver:

You know, and I will say too, we’re talking about recruiting as well. You know, we work in other verticals beyond transportation, right? A lot of it in the healthcare space. And you know, during COVID, we saw, you know, during healthcare’s busy time, we’ll draw parallel here to transportation’s busy time. It was a lot easier for recruiters to recruit drivers, right? There was, you know, so many drivers for every position. The pay rates were higher, companies were throwing money at the recruiting operation, and just, it wasn’t so much recruiting as it was almost fulfillment or order taking at some extent. You know, our healthcare markets are seeing a little bit of depression right now following trucking. And we’re seeing, you know, kind of the best recruiters, or we’re seeing which recruiters are actually recruiting, which ones aren’t. And a lot of these healthcare staffing agencies, or healthcare agencies or hospitals, they had to actually cycle some of their recruiters because they found out that once the demand cycle went down you know, certain recruiters weren’t able to keep up. And I’m expecting that we would, you know, from talking to our trucking clients, we have seen that as well. The cream is kind of rising to the top and, you know, some of the best recruiters are doing well. You know, there’s kind of a highlight of ones that maybe weren’t as, you know, more order takers than recruiters. So, I mean, you know, there’s never been a bigger spotlight on the art of recruiting than there is right now.

Allison:

Yeah. That’s great. We have a question. But how would you identify a quality driver? Mats, do you want to take that question?

Darin:

Which carrier has to identify their own quality driver? There’s not a standard pat answer for that. 

Allison:

That’s right. 

Oliver:

Yeah.

Mats:

Yeah. Since you’re laying it up there for me, Allison, I think, you know, fundamentally, for us specifically, I think that when we came in, we were very much champion for the small and mid-size carrier, knowing, you know, not everybody has the recruiting team and so forth. And so, I think that TJ here wrote in the chat here, how do you identify a quality driver? Not sure if he’s hitting on that, but if it is the prequalification question, you know, what can we as platforms do better to prescreen the drivers beforehand to the carrier specifics, not just, you know, how many years’ experience do you have? Do you have a TWIC card? And do you have, you know, X, Y, Z? But really into the specifics to where really every application is a potential hire. And I think that, you know, if you look at skilled labor marketplaces just in general, whether that’s trucking, nursing, I mean, we have a tremendous opportunity in trucking to really bring that all the way, basically to the hire when it comes to the qualifications. But if TJ here is hitting on a quality driver, you know, personality wise, et cetera, that’s all there as well. And I know that a lot of assessment type companies, et cetera, are looking at this industry, trying to get in. And so it’s going to be exciting to see over time, you know, who implements it and does it very well. And I think that’s where you’re going to find a lot of good retaining drivers that fit within your company culture and so forth, for sure.

Allison:

Amy, you look like you have some thoughts. 

Amy:

But that’s-

Allison:

Oh, yeah.

Amy:

I do. I mean, I think that’s a question to have with the client in the beginning though, too. What we do initially when we set up our campaigns to make sure that we understand what the client is looking for and put the applicable steps in along the way, and having that conversation and that partnership with them to make sure that what they’re getting is quality from us as a source, of course. But, you know, I mean, everybody’s different as far as what they consider quality. Some of them is just the basics, how many years of experience, what they’re looking for, how fast they can get those drivers in those seats. But some of them, it’s personality mix and some of them it is about the culture and making sure it fits. So it really is that loaded question that you definitely need to have with that client upfront.

Allison:

Yeah, that’s good. That’s good. Just to understand fully. Yep. You know, with the lines blurring between staffing agencies, job boards, ATSs, and advertising agencies especially. How do you see the future of the trucking industry?

Ben:

So, yeah, I’m not sure who’s going to jump in, but-

Mats:

Ben, it felt like it was either you or me, Ben.

Allison:

So let’s start with Mats and then, Ben, you can take it after that. 

Ben:

Yeah, go ahead, Mats. 

Sam:

No. No. No. No. Make them play rock, paper, scissors.

Allison:

You’re right.

Oliver:

Cage match.

Mats:

Here’s where you do rain. It always wins. 

Natasha:

Oh, good rain. 

Mats:

I think that, you know, a lot of conversation has been also around, you know, the ATSs, you know, are they stepping into, you know, the ad agency space and so forth. And, you know, I think that we can break that down in a lot of different areas. I think that, you know, it’s tending more towards, you know, whether it’s job sites, et cetera, leaning more towards, you know, ATS Lite features. Like what are the core features that you really need in order to do a hire, or thinking as an ATS, you know, how are we going to build a jobs marketplace with network effects and branding and all of that which is significantly more difficult to do from several standpoints. And I think that, you know, most platforms are going to become more of market networks to where you can do more things rather than just delivering the application, whether it’s screened or not, but being able to hold them in the hand all the way in. So if you look at the largest job sites in the world, et cetera, also just looking at the way that they monetize, right? They’re incentivized to bring you the application, but not further. So in fact, if you’re not successful at hiring, that’s actually good for the job sites, et cetera, because now you have to repost your job, you have to keep spending. Or to TJ’s question before, what’s a quality driver that’s going to stick with me for a long time? That’s actually not good business for a traditional job site, right? Because it’s going to be longer and far between those hires. So I think that there’s not much to… We have seven amazing companies here that are all differentiated. And I think that it’s also important to hit on unique supply of jobs. You know, who are we working with, you know? There’s going to be different flavors for everybody. And when you look at the ATSs, we’re talking very low single digit percents that actually use ATSs. So I think that it’s up to everybody on this call and several other amazing companies out there to make sure that we can deliver the goods.

Ben:

Yeah, I mean, my thoughts on that is truly, like, I think it isn’t even unique to trucking and transportation. I mean, this is any industry, I think there’s always going to be competition. And actually, I like competition because I think it keeps us all on our toes and it drives innovation, right? And I think that any business, naturally, you’re going to want to try to help your customer. If a challenge arises and the client needs help, of course we want to try and, you know, help and offer that service. And I think that goes, like I said, to any industry, but my recommendation to carriers or any business really, is to work with vendors that produce results, right? I mean, you know, I would really demand reporting, right? You want to know not just how many leads you got, how many hires did you get, right? What are some down funnel metrics? You know, that’s the stuff that really matters at the end of the day. I think most customers that we work with, and I’m sure everyone else on the call cares a lot more about, Hey, if you can give me 10 leads and I get 10 hires, that’s fine. I’d rather take 10 leads and 10 hires than a thousand leads and 10 hires, right? So focus on quality, right? But while there’s competition, I want to be clear as well, I don’t think that kills opportunities for, you know, strategic partnerships and, you know, strong collaboration in the industry. Right?

Allison:

Oliver, I know you have thoughts on this. Do you want to add yours?

Oliver:

Yeah, I mean, well, I think we could probably move on. I think everyone’s said enough. I mean, I appreciate it, but yeah, I don’t really… I’ll just regurgitate. You guys all have good points.

Natasha:

I just have one more thing with, you know, with the blurred lines between the different vendors or the, you know, the agencies and the ATSs, you know, we always have to make sure that ATSs are giving fair credit. So that’s something that’s extremely important. As well as with the different vendors, I think it will start to streamline with, you know, people using one source to send out to their vendors, agency-like, however, vendors will always be needed because of the different technology and different lead generation tactics. But definitely I think AI will begin to start to simplify some of this.

Mats:

I think you’re super spot on there, Natasha. Let me just jump in on that one real quick and just continue that one because, you know, a lot of times, or from what I’ve heard within this industry amongst peers of ours is, well, what happens if it is that one point? You know, unless… It’s really where the driver’s attention is, that’s where all the value is. If you have the driver’s attention, that’s where the companies will tend to spend their money obviously. And so, unless there’s one vendor that has the drivers and has that attention, nobody’s putting all of their eggs in one basket. And that naturally leads to the competition that Ben loves so much and gets fired up in the morning, like myself, and so I think-

Allison:

Goes with the rain. 

Mats:

Yeah, there you go. Absolutely.

Ben:

Got to stay sharp.

Mats:

Have to.

Allison:

So then I want to know the specifics from you guys on how AI will impact the future of trucking recruitment, and also how do you think… Oliver and I were talking about this a little bit ago, but how do you think recruiters can use AI? You know, we always tell them to use AI but how can they use it in the trucking industry to benefit them?

Natasha:

It’ll definitely help identify the sources and the mediums that are giving you the most, that are the most likely to convert into hires. Which ultimately means that it’ll be more, you know, who is more cost efficient, who is more time efficient. AI will be able to do all of these things on a higher level with, you know, a lot more predictive analytics than something, you know, that a human could do. And it will definitely streamline the process.

Ben:

Yeah.

Amy:

I think, AI is going to play a huge role, as far as with the recruiter’s end of it. If you think about it from their perspective, it’s going to help with their day-to-day process. It’s going to help along the recruitment process itself, getting in front of the candidates, but also that component of dealing with the candidates directly is going to be important because the candidates love the streamline effect of technology, but they really need that human component as well. But I think also just the job posting end of it, the job description end of it, I think there’s going to be a lot of diversity involved in it, but it included with the recruitment channels that will help. We’ve taken away that human element to really streamline their day.

Ben:

Yeah. And it’s kind of a tough question because it’s changing so fast, right? I mean you know, I’m trying to do my best to just keep up and, you know, my recommendation really to anybody. I mean, it’s not going away. So I highly recommend keeping up and trying to learn how you can use it to benefit yourself. I mean, me personally, you know, I’ve used it for productivity, and I think that’s where a lot of recruiting teams can use it. But I think that, you know, it may need some guidance, right? There’s potential use cases for a data analysis, right? There’s use cases potentially for engaging with candidates, right? And I think others, you know, recruiting process, I think just tremendous amount of different scenarios. I think it’d be interesting to define a few, right? And you know, make them available. We’ve seen also kind of almost like a help desk, right? So imagine any question that a recruiter might need an answer to, that can be stored into an AI tool. And literally, you know, the recruiter has all the historical tribal knowledge from a company right there at their fingertips, right? So a lot of cool stuff, but it’s going to continue to evolve fast for sure.

Allison:

But I do think the human element will never go away. 

Natasha:

No.

Ben:

No. No. I’m a hundred percent with you there. Let’s hope not.

Allison:

Yeah. I do think that’s some of people’s fears, but I don’t think it will.

Ben:

Right, exactly.

Mats:

I definitely champion the… Sorry, did I interrupt somebody?

Allison:

You’re fine, Mats.

Oliver:

Go ahead, Mats. 

Mats:

So I think that there’s so many really cool use cases for it. Definitely the human element is never going away. Anybody that has spoken with more than a hundred drivers know that there’s a thousand different flavors by speaking to a hundred drivers and getting them through the process. And so, I mean, everything from the job search, right? Just talking your way to the job, you know, this is what I’m looking for, et cetera. We’ve been playing around with it a little bit, and I’m just mind blown of the possibilities. And so it’s finding the most unique use cases. So both from the user experience side, from the driver’s side, but also what are the very first thing that we started talking about in the meeting today, like, get on the phone, call them quickly, they’re not picking up the phone, hey, it’s us that’s calling. You know, it’s not somebody that’s calling you for, you know, whatever other reason that you don’t want to pick up for… Whatever it might be. You know, having that, having these tools can make us so much more efficient in the recruiting departments, you know, making sure that you’re taking the right steps, and you know, so driving the hiring process much more efficiently with AI, helping the humans, so to speak. 

Allison:

Yeah. Sam, or Darin, do you have any? Oh, sorry, Oliver.

Oliver:

That’s all right. Just to jump in on that too. 

Allison:

Of all I shouldn’t cut off.

Oliver:

That’s all right. You can cut me off. Where we’re kind of looking at this in a couple of different ways; A, from a regulatory perspective. So we are you know, very closely watching the regulation and the, you know, the legislation that’s starting to get processed for AI, I think, you know, and through that process, you know, they’re talking about what the, you know, global implications are going to be. So we know there’s going to be some, so we’re kind of watching that on one hand. But where we are starting to use AI that I think is really helpful is integrations using it to be able to add schemas and add metrics to the job feeds that we get and the hiring requirements that we get, so we can improve matching, we can improve, you know, hireability, things like that. We’ve done also some stuff where we have some, you know, AI generated, you know, kind of improved job descriptions, which we actually tabled. Although they came out great—I don’t know if you guys saw this, but it was like Chase, I think it was Chase that had a thing a few months ago. 

Allison:

It was Chase.

Oliver:

Where, I think it was Chase, and- 

Allison:

It was Chase. 

Oliver:

You can tell they wrote their job description with AI and they were using it, but nobody was checking it. And the job description went on and it said, you know, the perfect candidate should be a 40-year-old white male so it only takes one mistake and no one, you know, not checking it. So I think there’s limitations right now for where we use it. I think using it to improve the user search experience, to help connections, to help pull out schemas, to help connect into ATSs better, to help, you know, match databases, to make it more useful, you know, chatbots, you know, potentially, but, you know, I’m still not super sold on the chat bot side. I think an average human being can, you know, smell a chatbot a million miles away. I think most companies are using AI right now, or using it in a very low level, but I think it’s a very overused term right now. I think everyone’s trying to get it in their sales deck. I think there’s pressure from clients to, you know, what are you guys doing with AI? That kind of stuff. But I think to really kind of follow it up with you know, you want to use AI, and you want to really use AI. So there’s different levels and sometimes it’s not even AI, it’s just programmatic. So I think it’s just an overused term right now, but I think it’s not going away. And I think, you know, everyone’s moving towards that. So I would watch it, you know, a couple years in the future here. That’s my opinion.

Ben:

Productivity and easy access to info has been the biggest win for us personally. And even me personally, not even business related. I mean, truly, like it can learn so much information so quick that it’s personalized to your data. It’s phenomenal there. And, you know, chatbots got a whole lot easier to implement, which I think is a great tool on your website. 

Natasha:

But I think you’re right. I think the term is overused and a lot of people who are calling programmatic, AI, and that’s simply not the case. 

Ben:

Right. Yeah.

Natasha:

I think a lot of the data that AI is able to collect, and like I said, the predictive analytics and things like that, with true AI, it will be able to… and not necessarily on the recruiting side, but on the lead generation side, I think the need for humans will definitely be on the recruiting side for a long time in the future. But the lead generation side, we’re doing that now, and it’s true AI and it has simplified things to the nth degree and has definitely maximized our way that we optimize campaigns and the way we look at campaigns and even the startup with them. So true AI is definitely here and can be usable, but you’re absolutely right, Oliver, a lot of folks confuse programmatic with AI.

Allison:

Yeah. Dangerous waters doing that. We had a couple questions here in the chat box about retention. So I want to touch on this question, but that drivers are known, you know, for having a large turnover rate. And I want to know from you guys, what are some ways trucking companies can compete for talent, but also retain their current staff, and then how can they do those… How can companies build a brand online without solely focusing on the pay rates? Because I know that’s a concern right now as well.

Darin:

This has been a question that’s been asked since my first Monday morning staff meeting, 30 years ago. Nobody’s had an answer yet. Nobody’s going to come up with an answer right now, I promise.

Allison:

Come on, Darin. Right here.

Oliver:

Lay it on us. 

Natasha:

You [Inaudible 46:40] with us, Darin, you should know.

Darin:

To look at the answer, [Inaudible 46:42].

Oliver:

You’ve been holding it for 30 years.

Darin:

Age is not necessarily wisdom on this. There is no writings on this. 

Sam:

I’ve got a drum I’ve been beating for… Oh, I’m sorry, Darin. 

Darin:

[Inaudible 46:54. Hey, I got to get to Matlock here in a little bit. We got to hurry up. This has been a battle that’s been fought forever. And the reality of the situation is we are in a business where we hire people who are nomadic by definition. These are individuals who can go live out of a truck for a week at a time, two weeks at a time—none of us that work inside the office walls of the trucking company can do. So, it’s hard for us to understand, and it’s hard for us to try to realize how many times we may have changed jobs when things didn’t go our way today. If I can walk away today and get the same exact job tomorrow with the same exact pay, same exact benefits, and not skip a beat, I don’t know that there is ever going to be, and people have made millions of dollars off of retention programs. And I think there’s ways to implement all those things and they’re going to help a little bit, but to completely eliminate turnover is just not even a viable goal anymore in this industry. And it’s just because of the industry that we’re in and the nature of the job.

Ben:

Yeah. I don’t think there’s a silver bullet. Right? I wish there was, but I think it’s a variety of things and, you know, trying to measure the effectiveness of those kind of programs. But, you know, candidate experience, employee experience, once they’re hired, I think delivering on kind of promises that were made, obviously management, even at the kind of local dispatch terminal level. I think how issues are handled and addressed is definitely key. I know there’s all kinds of tools out there where people can kind of have a voice and in some cases even an anonymous voice, right? To kind of, you know, get their concerns out there. And I think strong culture, right? I think it’s important to, you know, find ways to get your team proud to be working for you, right? I think that’s key. But I don’t think it’s one thing, unfortunately. 

Darin:

Well, I spent 10 years at a trucking company and implemented… started a driver services department, maybe the first one in the industry where we had employees who focused solely on driver retention. I promise you this organization put more money and effort towards retention than anybody at that time. Minimal gains. The variations and reasons why a driver’s going to leave your company are not something that you can pinpoint and be proactive about. Because as soon as you are proactive and you solve one problem, something new is going to pop up. It’s part of what we do. You need to build it into your budget. You need to build it into your recruiting. Now that doesn’t mean we should just give up on it. And, you know, there’s still very good companies out there that will help you with things like this. But to just say you’re going to solve it and move past it, is honestly kind of a being a little bit naive.

Allison:

Sam, I’d love to hear from you.

Sam:

I think-

Allison:

Oh-

Sam:

Yeah, Darin, I fully co-sign what Darin’s saying about, you know, problems existed forever, will always exist, is part of the nature of the business. I don’t have as much experience as Darin, but the 15 years that I’ve owned Truckers Report-

Darin:

Another old joke, Sam. 

Sam:

I’m sorry, Darin, I thought you were wearing that as a badge of honor, but yeah, I mean, so the 15 years of Truckers Report as a community, we have seen an unchanging aspect, which is that when drivers are happy, they’re often talking about how heard they feel at the company, how they feel there’s a personal connection. And it’s not just themselves in the truck fighting against fake bureaucracy, and when they’re unhappy, nobody over there is listening to them and they have a bad relationship with their driver manager. 

Allison:

I heard that. 

Sam:

It’s a personal thing, right? It’s a relationship thing. And the drum that I’ve been beating for 15 years has been create a driver concierge at your company. You know, somebody who isn’t part of their day-to-day interaction with their fleet manager. So that when they are feeling upset about something, they have a different person at the company to voice that to and then diffuse that negative emotional energy that’s going to cause them to say, you know what? Forget this dispatcher, forget this company, I’m going somewhere else. And I think what that advocate looks like is somebody who is there during orientation, everybody gets their business card, gets a handshake and checks in, you know, every week, every month, whatever the cadence is that you guys can make, work with that position and the time that they have available. Let them know there’s somebody here at this company who’s listening to you, and when things aren’t going well, talk to me, I’ll solve it.

Ben:

By the way, lots of tools; if you’re a big company, lots of tools available to make that more manageable, right? If you have 3000 drivers, you can definitely still apply, but you can use tech to stay engaged and get feedback.

Sam:

And I fully agree with what Darin was saying, where you’re not solving the problem with this, right? This is a tool that you can use, that every driver you save with this, is a driver you don’t have to hire. So there’s a clear ROI on having this position.

Ben:

And sometimes you can save a driver with a conversation, right? So it’s sometimes a very small thing that, you know.

Natasha:

Just talk them off the ledge. 

Mats:

And also, I would add to that. So it’s you know, what we see in the data are also are, you know, different kinds of retention, right? So you have some drivers… So the way that we see it is, you know, if a driver stays for the first 21 days, they’re likely to stay significantly longer. If they churn within the first 21 days, then there’s something else that, you know, that probably needs to be addressed. And I think that a lot of times this also comes back to the fact that, you know… We did a survey, for instance, and one of the thing that came up as the most disturbing thing for the drivers was the lack of transparency. 72% of the drivers thought that whatever stood in the job ad was a lie and the only real way to figure out if this was actually true, which was in the job ad, was to actually start working there. And so coming back to that 21-day window, you know, if we see, for instance, a company that is constantly churning within 21 days, there’s something to double click on and start looking at. And I think that what we’ve seen is probably more so on the smaller carrier side rather than the larger carrier side, just because it’s also easier to research and find other drivers that have experience with larger carriers. You kind of know a little bit more what to expect. You can go to… you can see that driver that, you know, this is my first four paychecks, et cetera. And I think that just from a technology standpoint, there are a lot of things that can be done in order to at least solve that very first acute problem for most of these companies. And I think that if these smaller carriers, for instance, don’t have to compete on ad budgets rather just pay for the results that are coming in, that evens the playing field. And so yeah.

Allison:

Somebody had commented that, I have found with my clients that transparency is key during the interview process. So yeah.

Amy:

The Women in Trucking show last week, this came up quite often as well, even on the hiring side. But I focused a lot on a panel for Gen Z in this up and coming generation and touching on the culture and the transparency is key. And just bringing these candidates on, if it’s drivers or any other type of logistics roles, we’re seeing it from across the board in retention. Because we have our logistics board, our retail or manufacturing, our trucking fleet, you know, and home delivery side of it. And so yeah, it’s really about talking to that generation as well and looking at it internally on who you are dealing with and making sure that you’re on the same page with the culture and same page with transparency. And I do hear that quite often with the recruiter, because I came from HR and staffing. I’ve been in recruitment advertising for 30 years. Darin, I feel your pain, but you know, I [Inaudible 55:46].

Allison:

Do you think he was being cynical with his answer? Somebody had asked, so. 

Amy:

Oh, well, you know.

Ben:

I think the orientation process, we’ve seen the orientation process for some—I think somebody mentioned earlier, kind of some smaller type customers that can have a big impact on somebody sticking, especially in that first couple weeks. 

Amy:

Yes. 

Ben:

I’ve seen folks, seven, eight people show up to an orientation and four of them leave because it was you know, in a dirty room and people were late, and it just wasn’t what they expected. They didn’t get a good first impression. Right? So I think that is something as simple as that. You know, just put yourself in the shoes of that candidate, right? I mean, first impression.

Amy:

Oh, I hear it all the time about recruiters. And I don’t think recruiters overall are saying the wrong thing. It’s just they don’t know. And I think they’re just trying to answer it up front. And instead of doing that, I think that there has to be some type of process involved, saying, Hey, I don’t have that answer right now, but let me get it for you, instead of saying the wrong thing. And yeah. We hear that quite often.

Natasha:

[Inaudible 56:50].

Allison:

Yeah. So we are almost done here, but I just have one more question I want to touch on, and if you guys can do like 30 seconds each, that would be great. Where do you see trucking in the next five years? I’d love to hear from all of you and see if you guys have different thoughts or similar thoughts on that. So Natasha, why don’t we start with you?

Natasha:

Sure. I think we all have Google to blame for this corporate culture of headquarters. But I do see a lot of automation in our future. I see a shift in the demographics of drivers. We all know that the majority of the existing driver pool will age out fairly soon, and everything that we’ve done in the past will be out the door with them. The new generation of drivers are going to be savvy. The equipment is going to be savvy and so should our recruiting practices and we’re just going to need to evolve and learn to, like Amy said about the whole new generation. We’re going to need to learn them and learn what they’re about and really push our culture and let that be kind of where they feel at home.

Allison:

Darin, since you’ve been in this industry for 30 years, what is your thoughts on the next generation?

Darin:

Well, you know, honestly, it hasn’t changed all that much in 30 years. You would think maybe it has and it really hasn’t. We’re still identifying the same problems. We have the same issues. We’re still trying to do the accomplish the same things. So even something as short term as five years is a really difficult task to make a prediction on. But Natasha kind of hit it on the head. I mean, obviously automation is going to come into play more and more in the industry with younger drivers that are coming in. They just come in more adapt to working with those things, and we’re going to all need to adjust how we think and what we do to roll with that.

Allison:

Yeah. Sam, do you want to go next, touch on this question? 

Sam:

The shortest answer is still essential, right? Trucking has been essential, will continue to be essential. Some aspects will change. I think we might see as I mentioned here, bit more of a technology focus for the drivers. And it’s going to be the companies that are able to merge the productivity, the autonomy of technology in terms of interacting with their drivers and merging that with the human touch. Those that can do both those things are going to grow in outsized ways. And those that don’t will still be essential, but might not have the growth that others are seeing.

Allison:

That’s a great perspective. Well, I want to wrap up here, but I want to give Amy and Ben and Mats and I guess Oliver [Inaudible 59:49].

Ben:

A hundred percent self-driving truck.

Allison:

A chance to touch on that if you’d like. If not, no worries.

Mats:

Sure. 

Amy:

I think it’s the self-driving trucks.

Ben:

I’m just kidding. 

Amy:

Electric trucks, the efficiencies, I mean, the demand overall is going to increase. I mean, yeah, as you said, trucking’s not going to go away, and-

Allison:

Yeah, I’m going to agree.

Amy:

You know, I think the process to hire is going to change a bit, and just the overall with AI and the technology, we’ll just have to wait and see. It’s going to be exciting.

Ben:

I would say, something that we’ve all been seeing, I think it’s going to continue, a shift… You know, we all remember five years ago, private fleets. I mean, they wouldn’t consider a driver that didn’t have two years of experience. That’s all changed tremendously. You know, in fact, many of them are getting into training and partnering with schools and paying for it and whatnot, right? So I do see a more of a trend of more local jobs and jobs that are more close to home as opposed to full OTR. Even I’m seeing that with OTR customers that are shifting and having more flexible routes and options to remain competitive. And obviously on the tech side, I do see a lot more you know, safety features, right? I was joking about the self-driving trucks thing. Got a lot of questions about that over the years, but I think we’re good for another five at least, right? But I do see a lot of you know, safety features as a result of, you know, AI automation, you know, just allowing folks to, you know, be more safe on those roads, which is great. I think there might be some regulatory changes as a result of that, but we’ll see. I know there’s some pilot programs out there, but it’ll be interesting to see. 

Mats:

And so just to follow on that super short, 22nd version, I think that what we’re going to see is trucking become smaller in the sense of bigger companies. I think that the smaller companies, with all the amazing technology that is coming out that is helping them, you know, not having to have that massive infrastructure like many of the mega carriers do have and have been relying on in order to grow to that size, that is going to be much more accessible. You know, from a recruiting standpoint from what we’re looking at today, you know, we’re already seeing that, you know, the tools that are available now allows them to compete. And so, you know, getting from a 3 to 10 to 15 to 30 truck operation, I think that we’re going to see a lot more of that. Competition is going to be booming. And we have a super exciting future ahead of us, for sure, the next five years.

Allison:

Love that. Oliver, I’ll let you add yours and then you can end us off if you’d like.

Oliver:

Sure. So, you know, I’m going to go bullish. I think the next five years is going to be amazing. I think well, you know, whenever we see, you know, kind of a, such a stark, you know, freight recession and everybody kind of just, you know, covering themselves, for lack of a better word, you know, it’s really is, you know, the pendulum is swinging the other way, right? So a lot of these trucking companies and everyone in the industry kind of bolts down and just crunches and just kind of preserve capital and just kind of, you know, we’ve got to hold out. And I think the moment that the pendulum starts to swing, everyone else is going to go at the same time, and there’s going to be a rush at the end, is what I see. And we’ve seen it in cycles before. And I say that to the clients now; we’ve got, you know, seven great, you know, job board platforms on this call here. Don’t wait till there’s a stampede, you know, all these recruiting sources, to come in and start this process, right? So start early, start getting a flow going, start, you know, getting everything ready. Because what we’ve seen in these cycles where it comes and when the pendulum swings the other way is, you know, everyone comes on and it’s just much more difficult to manage everybody. And you know, there’s a higher cost to that too for the end clients. So don’t wait for everybody to get kind of, you know, ready to go before you decide to get your feet wet. Jump in now, start building your pipeline like we’ve been discussing on the calls. But other than that, I just want to thank the panelists again for jumping in on this. I love the fact that we can get, you know, six, seven different platforms together from all over the country and be unified and talk about how great, you know, the market is and express some interest there. So thanks to everyone who attended. And again, I’m Oliver Feakins, AllTruckJobs.com. If you have any questions about what we can do for you, let us know. But I invite you to also reach out to our esteemed colleagues here and learn what their platforms can do for you as well. We all win together. All right? So have a great one, be safe and hopefully next time we talk to you for a part two. We’ll be talking about how great the trucking industry is right now. So anyway, thanks everybody.